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Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #525 on: July 25, 2016, 07:31:30 pm »
Interesting stuff happening, even before the Democratic Convention which sounds insane.  When there's analysis and commentary, I'll include.  The Bernie Or Bust insanity is annoying as hell, and I doubt they'll change their tune even after what we've learned about the e-mail hack, since, as John Oliver has proved; feelings are facts.


I know this small band of loudmouths FEELS oppressed, but the obvious solution is to put a Democrat in office and hold her feet to the fire.  There are several issues I disagree with her about (TPP being a big one), and I don't like having to vote for her to keep crazy out of office, but I'll do it and vote down ticket.  The liberal wing of the party, which is needed for the Democrats to stay relevant, need to be active on a ground level, to build numbers in order to create pressure for their positions.  And they need Bernie to tell them that ("you voted for me, you supported me, I didn't get the nomination, but if you support my policies, here are the smaller races you should be focusing on."

Anyway, in the break time between conventions, I came across some interesting things.

The first is a fascinating article on Slate about Why there's so much hate for Hillary Clinton  I'll admit to being susceptible to this myself and being aware of that and TRYING to do a better job about it, to get rid of that bias and judge her as a candidate and not the baggage I've been saddled with over the past 25 years.

And even more fascinating was this incredible, complied list on Reddit or all places, all claims cited with multiple sources, about Why Trump qualifies as a fascist.  I knew about a bunch of these, but others are just so shocking that they seem unreal .   It's the curse of the internet, how given we are to hyperbole, that when it's actually accurate, we can't use it.   And that's just attitude, it doesn't include facts I didn't realize like how Trump is blackballed from almost every US bank or how Trump would plan to delegate almost all his responsibilities to his VP..  Had I linked that, yet?

I'm glad I held off on commenting on the e-mail hack, because over the weekend it became clear that not only did the hack come from Russia, the files were manipulated.  Incredible.  I wonder how this is going to play out, how do you even categorize what's happened there?

Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #526 on: July 25, 2016, 10:27:34 pm »
Bernie Sanders: I'm proud to stand with her.

What a load of sh*t. At the end of the day, he is just another two-faced politician. What makes it worse is that he is willingly bending over and taking it in the ass and then saying "Thank you DNC, may I have another?".
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Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #527 on: July 25, 2016, 10:44:22 pm »
He's with her because she agreed to adopt some of his positions (one of the requirements for his delegates pledging her) and because he doesn't want Donald Trump to win.  You know politics is all about deals and compromises, right?  There's that old quote, "politics is the art of the possible."
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 10:52:57 pm by Neumatic »

Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #528 on: July 27, 2016, 10:19:40 am »
Wow, Drumpf actually called out Russia on National TV and implored them to hack Clinton's email on his behalf. Seriously, what the f*ck. This is further proof that he is trying to throw the election. In a year full of surprises, it wouldn't surprise me one bit that on Election Day, with the polls showing that he could actually win, he would finally deliver on his proclamation and shoot someone on 5th avenue, hoping THIS will be the moment that tanks it for him. America is f*cked no matter who is in the Oval Office.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #529 on: July 27, 2016, 01:23:39 pm »
What's scary is that the polls show that he could win.  Even Michael Moore thinks he will.  WTF, people?  If he wins, it'll be because of people who can't swallow their pride, get over themselves, and vote against him.  You don't get the ideal choice in elections, you only get the two options, and there si NO situation where Drumpf is the lesser of two evils.  And you know what?  There's nothing that says that Hillary would be a two-termer.  Heck, if the Republicans maintain control of the other two branches (which seems likely because no one's talking about those down-ballot elections), do you really think she'll be able to get anything done?  Look at all the bullsh1t obstructionism that Obama's been dealing with, especially in the last year.  What are you so fvcking afraid of?  Seriously, what policies does she have that are worse than what Drumpf has said he would do?

And BTW, Clinton could surprise you.  She could do something that makes you proud.  Drumpf can't, and you know it.

And this is a post-Brexit world.  No one thought that it would happen, so the young people, whose future depended on the vote, stayed home.  Now the UK is fvcked.  And it can happen here.  And it's close to happening here.  Get over yourself.  Your vote isn't sacrosanct, DC isn't pure, all you have to do is hold your nose and vote against a fascist.

I'd rather have a corrupt government than a fascist one.  Because corruption, inevitably, comes to light.  Fascists are harder to get rid of.

And you act like Hillary would be the first crooked politician.  What are you, high?  What about Regan, trading arms for hostages?  What about Nixon?  What about Bush?  Yeah, I'd like it to stop too, but it's not going to stop with that generation.  Maybe Generation X.  But doubtful.  Not being a pure candidate seems like a weak argument to me.

And while that might scuttle my next point, NONE of the former living US Presidents support Trump.  Not a one.  Kim Jong Un DOES.  So does Putin, openly..

Casting a vote for Clinton is not the same as supporting Clinton.  But guess what?  No matter how few people vote, those electoral votes go to someone.  You have a LOT of flesh in the game, too much to hand your future over to Drumpf.  It's that simple.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:43:38 pm by Neumatic »

Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #530 on: July 28, 2016, 06:51:51 am »
Out of all the speeches last night, Joe Biden crushed it. Easily the best of the night. One thing that stuck with me is that as I was watching / listening to him, I kept asking myself "Why isn't HE running for President?". I know why. It has to do with him dealing with the loss of his son. But as the speech went on, I said I'd cast my vote for him. He's everything that everyone that ran or is nominated is not.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Mac

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Re: Politics
« Reply #531 on: July 28, 2016, 09:38:31 am »
i don't want to burst your bubble, but if we were in a parallel universe, and he was running for president, he would be like every other politician. It's the machine. Since he has no pressure... he's there for support, he is less prone to put on face.
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Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #532 on: July 28, 2016, 10:00:03 am »
It was amusing seeing everyone on Twitter turn into Leslie Knope while his speech was on.

Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #533 on: July 28, 2016, 10:20:15 am »
Bubble was already popped. I'm just saying that given the option we have, he comes across more Presidential then anyone we have now. That is all.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #534 on: July 28, 2016, 11:03:53 am »
Failing that, and as much as I would LOVE this god-d6mn election to be over and to never hear Trump's fascist garbage again, the candidates are so unpopular, part of me was thinking "what would it take to just hit the reset button?"  Both parties, go back to your corners and bring out someone new, from the next generation (ie someone born in the 70s or 80s, not someone who was conceived on god-d6mn D-DAY!) and primary, I'm sure there are TONS of Republicans who would love a do-over and a chance to save their party.  Biden can run the show for 18 months or whatever, he'll be fine, he certainly seems to have a higher approval rating than either candidate, especially today.  2016 has been such a colossal clusterfvck by so many objective measures, it's almost like bring drunk: let's not make any important decisions until it's over.

Mac

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Re: Politics
« Reply #535 on: July 29, 2016, 03:38:13 am »
I honestly believe that is the majority of people's thinking today.

A lot of folks, if they go to the polls, will be holding their nose, while pulling the lever. Not sure to many folks are thinking beyond that day.
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #536 on: July 29, 2016, 05:01:02 am »
I literally could not sleep last night because the idea that Drumpf is now being briefed on Classified information had me tossing and turning. Same goes for Clinton. Think about it. We are about to live in a World where we have one that kept servers in their bathroom and destroys information because of incriminating evidence against her and another that has an IQ and temperament of a 3rd grader. We. Are. F*cked.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Politics
« Reply #537 on: July 29, 2016, 07:19:26 am »
Chip: relax.

I'll admit the idea of Drumpf getting a classified intelligence briefing has me a bit concerned, and the officials are more worried about Drumpf (no mention of Clinton), but the reports are just analytical summaries, "here's the state of things," not who all the Jason Bournes in the field are and what they're up to.  Given that there's not much they can practically DO about things, the intelligence is limited.  It's mostly there to keep them from saying the wrong thing on the campaign trail, this is who not to p1ss off and sh1t like that..  It's basically skipping to the next chapter of the social studies book before the rest of us.

Basically, it's four hours of "hey, there's a tense situation developing in Ghana, so don't say sh1t about Ghana."

Also, don't forget that there are DEGREES of classified information, and that Clinton and Drumpf are NOMINEES, that's all.  It's higher clearance than us, but it's not POTUS level.  Even if Drumpf ran straight to Putin with the information, it's probably information Putin already had courtesy of his own intelligence agency.  You don't get to see the real sh1t until after you've taken the oath.  And Hillary Clinton was the Secretary Of State, these briefings are probably a step DOWN in what she's used to.  Her whole thing will be "is that sh1t still goin' on?" "Yep." "Who's screwing it up? Is it Jerry?" "I can't tell you that now."

And BTW, now that they're NOMINEES officially, they have Secret Service protection AND they're under that much higher level of scrutiny.  So there's an extra layer of protection there.

I'm also relatively sure that, given that this material is classified, that there would be serious consequences in the real world and to the political figures themselves for revealing it.  Since it's an in-person briefing, nothing is being transmitted via e-mail so that's Clinton taken care of (unless she reproduces information in e-mail or discussion, which I don't think she would b/c she's the only one who needs to know the info).  And if Drumpf says something in public or online (he doesn't really use e-mail), that produces evidence that can be used against him.  His Russia hacking comment, which doesn't fit the definition of treason, may have violated the Logan Act, but it's too obscure and unpredictable to use against him.  The kind of violation you're worried about would definitely be actionable.  And I'm certain that the people debriefing him will make sure he understands that, the way that the mafia makes sure you understands the terms of service when you borrow money.

One benefit of Drumpf being a known and consistent liar (he lies 76 percent of the time) is that even if he does let something slip, odds are no one is going to believe him.

The only problem I can see is if Drumpf lets out information during a debate, then we'd have to see how Hillary handles that.  She's a lawyer, so she should be able to not touch that hot potato, but it would be the only instance I could see of them both failing this test at the same time.  How would we react.

And to further attempt to put Chip's mind at ease, here's the Media Matters breakdown of the Hillary e-mail fiasco.  AND... I will straight up admit that this shocked me, fact checkers confirmed that Clinton is the most trustworthy of all the 2016 candidates,  despite her reputation.

Edit: ooh, pretty graph from Politifact illustrating that point:


Although it would be nice to see some comparisons to figures we'd consider paragons of truth, I don't think Politifact goes back that far.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 09:33:06 am by Neumatic »

Mac

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Re: Politics
« Reply #538 on: July 29, 2016, 10:00:11 am »
Who gives a flying flip about conventions. Colossal waste of money and resources. Not one single mind is changed by conventions.

The conventions are over; when do the presidential debates start?

Now that the presidential conventions are over, we can all take a break, sit back  and breathe.

The next logical question is, of course, “when do the presidential debates start?”

Glad you asked.

Here’s a quick guide to Trump vs. Clinton, and, at least on one night, Pence vs. Kaine.

The presidential debates

Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton will debate three times prior to Nov. 8, election day.

The first debate is Monday, Sept. 26, at Hofstra University on Long Island, N.Y.

According to the Commission on Presidential Debates:

“The first debate will be divided into six time segments of approximately 15 minutes each on major topics to be selected by the moderator and announced at least one week before the debate. The moderator will open each segment with a question, after which each candidate will have two minutes to respond. Candidates will then have an opportunity to respond to each other. The moderator will use the balance of the time in the segment for a deeper discussion of the topic.”

The second debate will be held at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo., on Oct. 9.

According to the Commission on Presidential Debates:

“The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which half of the questions will be posed directly by citizen participants and the other half will be posed by the moderator based on topics of broad public interest as reflected in social media and other sources. The candidates will have two minutes to respond and there will be an additional minute for the moderator to facilitate further discussion. The town meeting participants will be uncommitted voters selected by the Gallup Organization.”

The last debate is set for Oct. 19 at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas.

This one will be the same format as the first one.

More...
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Politics
« Reply #539 on: July 29, 2016, 10:48:53 am »
I can use a break from all this Political bullsh*t we have been drowning in for the past year. But I also know that the next big thing for us to chew on are in fact the Debates. But I'm not entirely sold on the idea that Drumpf will even do one, let alone two....or three. I smell a rat and it wouldn't surprise me one bit that he pulls the "media is treating me unfairly and you guys are raking in the cash on my name and brand with these debates.....so f*ck you and f*ck the debates. I'm holding my own blah blah blah......". Watch him walk away because he will get exposed in a way the Primaries didn't do. He can't risk "losing to a woman" on the grandest stage of them all.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 10:51:11 am by Chiprocks1 »
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

 

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