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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2014, 06:29:50 am »
I wasn't sure where to put this. I thought it best here, because the core of the story is religious beliefs. If you recall some time back about bakers who refused service of making a wedding cake for a lesbian couple, because it contradicts their beliefs.

So a lot of discussion happened. A business rights to refuse service, moral and ethical issues, bigotry, discrimination, etc.

Well here is a follow up...

... sad for her, but in my mind, due justice. Reading the comments, brings up so many more scenario's where this couple went wrong.

Baker Who Wouldn't Serve Lesbians Burst Into Tears On Gay Marriage Panel



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Melissa Klein, one of the owners of a Christian bakery who refused to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple and have since been fighting the state of Oregon over the matter, broke into tears when describing her business during a panel at the Values Voter Summit on Friday.

"For me personally when I would sit down with them I just would want to know everything her wedding. I'd want to know about the flowers, her dress, the centerpieces, her colors, the way her hair is going to be. I would even want to talk about 'where are you going on your honeymoon?'" Melissa Klein (pictured) said before tearing up.

In January, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries said that there was serious evidence that the couple broke the law by refusing to bake a cake for the lesbian couple.

"I would just feel so honored to be part of such an amazing, special day," Klein said fighting back tears.

Moderator Peter Sprigg then asked the couple about legal action taken against them.

"I mean quite frankly, they didn't just harass us, they harassed the other wedding vendors that we did business with. It cut off our referral system," Aaron Klein, Melissa's husband, said. "We had to shut the shop down. Melissa does very limited cakes out of our house. I mean we're facing in excess of $150,000 of damages for this, just for simply standing by my first amendment rights."

Klein said it's a "violation of my conscience, I mean it's a violation of my religious freedom."

"I mean it's horrible to see your own government doing this to you," Aaron Klein said.

Sprigg later asked the couple if the whole dispute was really about sexual orientation.

"It's about marriage and the event," Aaron Klein said.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 06:34:48 am by Mac »
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2014, 06:30:33 pm »
I had all but forgotten this story. Thanks for the update.
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 09:39:58 am »
Just when I thought religions were heading in a new, better direction, we get this...

Halloween really IS evil, says Vatican, and should be replaced with HOLYWEEN so children can dress up as saints and pray

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The Catholic Church has called for Halloween to be scrapped and replaced with 'Holyween' - a night in which children would attend prayer vigils and dress up as saints.

The Vatican's first official conference of exorcists warned of a danger to young people at Halloween when there is an increase in occult activity.

Father Aldo Buonaiuto, of the International Association of Exorcists, which met in Rome at the weekend, said that a spike in demonic possessions in October is down to the phenomenon of Halloween.

The organisation's emergency number receives hundreds of calls over this period, around 40 a day, especially from parents who fear that their child has been initiated into the occult, he said.
He said: 'Many say Halloween is a simple carnival, but in fact there is nothing innocent or fun about it - it is the antechamber to something much more dangerous.

'There are always more evil rituals, animal sacrifices, desecrations of cemeteries and thefts of sacred bones at the time of the 31 October.

Participating in Halloween is 'like an initiation into the occult', he said.

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Chiprocks1

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2014, 11:43:35 am »
I'd prefer if they just merge two holidays into one and give us Turkeyween as I have been itching to dress up as Big Bird for quite some time now.

Gobble Gobble!
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2015, 11:39:39 am »
I would love to meet Charlie Hebdo... I would definitely would want to share a beer with him.

His comments are so important here.

NBC News interview after Office slaughter
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2015, 10:23:18 am »
While at first glance many people think his statement is 'about time'. But read deeper and at it's core, it's still f*cked up thinking.

Pope says Catholics don't have to breed 'like rabbits'

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Pope Francis is firmly upholding church teaching banning contraception, but said Monday that Catholics don't have to breed "like rabbits" and should instead practice "responsible parenting."

Speaking to reporters en route home from the Philippines, Francis said there are plenty of church-approved ways to regulate births. But he said most importantly, no outside institution should impose its views on regulating family size, blasting what he called the "ideological colonization" of the developing world.

African bishops, in particular, have long complained about how progressive, Western ideas about birth control and gay rights are increasingly being imposed on the developing world by groups, institutions or individual nations, often as a condition for development aid.

St. Peter's Basilica is seen behind a hand of a demonstrator holding a condom, on the edge of the Vatican's St. Peter's Square, in Rome, March 23, 2009. (AP / Alessandra Tarantino)

"Every people deserves to conserve its identity without being ideologically colonized," Francis said.

The pope's comments, taken together with his defence of the Catholic Church's ban on artificial contraception during the trip, signal that he is increasingly showing his more conservative bent, which has largely been ignored by public opinion or obscured by a media narrative that has tended to highlight his populist persona.

On the trip, Francis gave his strongest defence yet of the 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae, which enshrined the church's opposition to artificial birth control. He warned against "insidious attacks" against the family -- a reference to gay marriage proposals -- echoing language often used by overwhelmingly conservative U.S. bishops. And he insisted that "openness to life is a condition of the sacrament of matrimony."

At the same time, however, he said it's not true that to be a good Catholic "you have to be like rabbits." On the contrary, he said "responsible parenthood" requires that couples regulate the births of their children, as church teaching allows. He cited the case of a woman he met who was pregnant with her eighth child after seven Cesarean sections.

"That is an irresponsibility!" he said. The woman might argue that she should trust in God. "But God gives you methods to be responsible," he said.

He said there are many "licit" ways of regulating births that are approved by the church, an apparent reference to the Natural Family Planning method of monitoring a woman's cycle to avoid intercourse when she is ovulating.

During the Vatican's recent meeting on the family, African bishops denounced how aid groups and lending institutions often condition their assistance on a country's compliance with their ideals: allowing health care workers to distribute condoms, or withdrawing assistance if legislation discriminating against gays is passed.

"When imposed conditions come from imperial colonizers, they search to make people lose their own identity and make a sameness," he said. "This is ideological colonization."
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 09:46:40 am »
and then we have this counter-comment. I was listening to the Pope on occasion, but this is a first where I completely disagree. I don't understand this view. Being a parent is not for everybody. In fact some people should never have children.

Pope Francis: Not having children is selfish
Children bring joy to society and not just their parents, the Pope says, as he criticises the "selfish" choice to not have children

Quote
Pope Francis has criticised married couples who decide not to have children as “selfish”.

Extolling the virtues of family life, he said children brought joy not just to their parents but to the whole of society.

He said it was important to have children in order to ensure a healthy society – three weeks after telling Catholics that they should not feel obliged to “breed like rabbits”.

A society which viewed children as “a weight, a risk” would soon turn into a “depressed” society.

“The choice to not have children is selfish. Life rejuvenates and acquires energy when it multiplies: it is enriched, not impoverished,” the 78-year-old Latin American pontiff said during his general audience at the Vatican on Wednesday.
Related Articles

Children were a “gift” and vital for preserving hope in society.

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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 10:13:42 am »
I think at the core of my drifting from Religious communities is because of the head scratching thinking they teach. I don't go into things blind much more. I don't know how followers embrace certain teachings. This just confuses and it's just the tip of the iceberg of what I think religious communities do.

Christians React To Victoria Osteen's Controversial Sermon

Quote
Lakewood Church co-pastor Victoria Osteen received backlash from the Christian community after video footage of an August sermon surfaced showing Osteen encouraging congregants to "do good for your own self."

Video discussion
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 09:22:07 am »
I guess I don't understand the sudden interest in creating these Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) bills. Who is being oppressed?

I like this guys theological points....

Dear Indiana: Christian Love Embraces Those on the Margins of Society

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Rev. Dr. Serene Jones is President of Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York.
Religious freedom was never meant to override the inherent dignity of human beings


In the current debate over Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), conservative Christians would have America believe that they stand with a united and monolithic block of the faithful. That all of those committed to following a God who suffered on the cross in the ultimate act of love for humanity are somehow religiously required to discriminate against their fellow human beings because of who it is they love.

As a Christian minister, I take great joy in seeing conversion: conversion to faith in Christ, conversion to deeper discipleship. This week we have seen a conversion among many Americans around the dignity and worth of our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.

As someone who has been deeply transformed by the Gospel, my conscience and my faith demands that I raise my voice in opposition to the oppression and discrimination allowed by Indiana’s original law. I am not alone in this. Polling shows that even among white evangelical Protestants — the most politically conservative Christian group on this issue — only a quarter believe that businesses ought to be able to refuse service to gay and lesbian people.

Religious freedom is a core American value, one that is cherished by the vast majority of Americans across all religious affiliations. This freedom has allowed Americans to practice the religion of their choice by freely gathering in worshipping communities, and to live out their deeply held beliefs without fear of oppression or discrimination.

These very convictions can and should extend into the way that people of faith engage in the marketplace and in public life. Certainly, Jesus’s commands to welcome the stranger and to care for the “least of these” guide me in the personal, professional, and even political decisions that I make.

However, when it comes to the society that we share — be it government services like libraries and schools or businesses that are open to the public— there is no place for discrimination. This is an issue of fundamental fairness — a deeply religious and spiritual value. As laid out in our Constitution, religious freedom was never meant to override the inherent dignity of human beings. RFRAs that don’t protect the rights of LGBTQ people have no place in America.

In too many parts of America, being gay is a heavy burden to bear. While marriage equality is sweeping across America, and minds are being changed everyday, prejudice toward gay and lesbian people throughout American history has left a deep scar emotionally, and sometimes physically as well.

Forty percent of homeless youth are LGBTQ. Gay teens are four times as likely to attempt suicide. The statistics (and the stories behind the statistics) are nothing short of tragic.

What the Indiana law and laws like it say to our precious LGBTQ brothers and sisters throughout the nation is that your dignity and the dignity of your relationships are still up for debate in this country.

As a Christian, I follow the example of a God who constantly placed himself with those who are on the margin, whose disciples were made up of the most reviled and marginalized people of his day. This experience of marginalization exposes our sinful theological shortcomings, specifically that we don’t treat everyone who bears the image of God equally.

While the legalistic Pharisees sat back and judged all those who did not conform to their understanding of the letter of the law, Jesus cast a vision of God’s law that includes everyone. “Love God and love your neighbor.”

Our gay neighbors are suffering. Christian love embraces those on the margins of society, and all of those who suffer. Moreover, Christian love is for each and every one of God’s children.

May we have a daily conversion that will bring us ever closer to a Christian vision of justice, freedom, and equality.
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 10:17:38 am »
I fit squarely in this latest survey. I've pretty much dropped my church and my religion, but remain Christian with a strong faith in God. This discussion about politics hits home.

U.S. has become notably less Christian, major study finds

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The U.S. has become significantly less Christian in the last eight years as the share of American adults who espouse no systematic religious belief increased sharply, a major new study found.

For what is likely first time in U.S. history – certainly the first since the early days of the country – the actual number of American Christians has declined. Christianity, however,  remains by far the nation’s dominant religious tradition, according to the new report by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center.
Rising partisanship among voters is 'nationalizing' local politics

The rapid increase in the number of adults without ties to traditional religious institutions has strong implications for other social institutions and for politics.

Whether a person attends religious services regularly is among the strongest predictors of how he or she will vote, with traditional religion strongly tied to the Republican Party, at least among white Americans.

The decline in traditional religious belief adds to the demographic challenges facing the GOP, which already faces difficulties because of its reliance on white voters in a country that has grown more racially diverse.
lRelated 2016 election pits desire for change against a demographic shift

The interaction between religion and politics may work both ways. Some scholars believe that close ties between traditional religion and conservatism, particularly on issues such as same-sex marriage, have led many younger Americans to cut their ties with organized religion.

Almost 1 in 5 American adults were raised in a religious tradition but are now unaffiliated, the study found. By contrast, only 4% have moved in the other direction.

Because the U.S. Census does not ask questions about religion, the massive religion surveys by the Pew Research Center have become a chief source of information on the U.S. religious landscape.

The current survey questioned 35,071 U.S. adults last summer. Its huge size allows detailed analysis of even fairly small religious groups. The margin of error for the full sample is plus or minus six-tenths of a percentage point.

The U.S. still remains far more religious than most other economically advanced countries. But the significant increase in the share of Americans who do not follow a traditional religious belief mirrors trends in Europe and elsewhere.

Just short of 1 in 4 Americans now describe themselves as being agnostic, atheist or simply “nothing in particular,” up from roughly 1 in 6 in 2007, according to the new study. The ranks of the “nones,” as the study labels them, have grown in large part from people abandoning the religion in which they were raised.

By contrast, Christian ranks have eroded. Roughly 173 million adult Americans identify as Christian, just under 71% of the U.S. population. That’s down from 178 million, or 78% of the U.S., in 2007. The total U.S. adult population grew by about 8% during that eight-year period.

Protestants, who once dominated the U.S. population, no longer form a majority, the study found. About 47% of the U.S. population identifies with some Protestant denomination, down from just over half in 2007.

The decline has been uneven, with mainline denominations, such as Methodists and Presbyterians, shrinking more quickly than evangelical churches.

Slightly fewer than 1 in 6 adult Americans identify with the mainline Protestant churches. Evangelicals, by contrast, make up about one-quarter of the adult U.S. population. They now form a majority among those who identify as Christian.

Another 7% of American adults identify with historically black Protestant churches, a share that has remained relatively stable.

Catholics, about 1 in 5 Americans, have also seen some decline in numbers since 2007, the study found, although some other studies have found a more recent uptick. Almost 13% of American adults are former Catholics – the largest single group of people who have left a faith in which they were raised.

Among non-Christian faiths, Judaism remains the largest in the U.S., although only about 2% of the U.S. population identifies as Jewish. The number is up very slightly from what the survey found in 2007.

Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism each have less than 1% of the U.S. population, although the Muslim and Hindu population have both grown rapidly, reflecting immigration from Asia.
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2015, 06:48:18 am »

John Oliver's scathing indictment about those that would fleece desperate people in the name of God is spot-on and damn funny when he turns it around on Robert Tilton. I remember the first time seeing Tilton on TV when I was just a kid and thinking that this idiot couldn't be real. Even I knew back then that this guy was a straight-up con man. It baffles me that anyone back then or even now, would ever believe this guy or any other Televangelist on TV that ask for thousands of dollars at a time. Stay till the end of the clip as John starts his own legal "church", which reminded me of how Stephen Colbert got away with starting a Superpac.
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2015, 09:32:17 am »
Like you, I have never understood how people would follow such an obvious scam as televangelists. WTF people. They have to be super weak or have a self-esteem issues to buy into some pretty unbelievable stuff.

This John Oliver bit was damn straight while being funny as hell. But you know what, those who buy into televangelism would never see the light of day of John Oliver or others.
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2015, 10:17:08 am »
Stephen Colbert Gets All Up In Your Faith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLWYXCOf4Ac
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2015, 10:17:16 am »
I'm not Catholic, but even I wanted to see the Pope Parade this morning. I even tuned in to watch his speech at the White House.
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Mac

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Re: Religion...
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2015, 01:07:36 pm »
I do enjoy hearing from this Pope... yet I still see him just as another ordinary man.
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