Author Topic: Super Hero Movies - a rant  (Read 612 times)

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Mac

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Super Hero Movies - a rant
« on: July 14, 2015, 06:08:58 pm »
I was sitting down at dinner and a trailer or news came on about a new Fantastic Four film. Apparently a reboot? Didn't we have some Fantastic Four just recently? It just seems there is a whole bunch of recycling of movies franchises, especially the super hero stuff.

As you know, these are not my cup of tea, so my rant means squat. But it does make me wonder how the fan views these various iterations, in a rather quick cycle. Don't we have 3 different Batmans? How many Spider-Man's? Avengers?

Anyway, I would think these various iterations just dilutes the quality of what is coming out. As a fan, I guess I would either be ecstatic or critical as hell.

I just wonder how this onslaught can continue?

I just wanted to rant... I don't give a ****

Well, I do... I just wish the studios would put effort into other things... (Cough)sci-fi(cough)(cough)
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Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 07:04:43 pm »
Well, here's the problem: the rights are all divvied up across multiple studios.

Marvel/Disney owns the Marvel Cinematic Universe, that's Iron Man, all the Avengers, SHELD, Daredevil etc.  They're the ones who REALLY made that interconnectivity work, the characters can pop up from movie to movie and build up a story that continues, and other studios want in on that fat cash.

20th Century Fox owns X-Men and Fantastic Four, and those flicks are sort of winding up (Apocalypse will be the last one before the reboot).  Those don't come out every year.  I don't know if there's EVER been a good Fantastic Four (except for The Incredibles), I haven't heard much fan anticipation for it, but clearly the studio is hoping for big success.  We'll see.

Marvel Comics literally cancelled the Fantastic Four comics in the new reboot, all the characters got resorted into other properties. the Thing joined Guardians Of The Galaxy, I think.  That's the benefit of the comics and the MCU, they can move characters and actors around.

Columbia owns Spider-Man.  Just Spider-Man, which is why the rebooted franchise was so dense with extra stuff, they were trying to build their own mini EU with all the villains (the Sinister Six).  If they sit on Spider-Man long enough, the rights will revert, which is why they did the reboot in the first place.  But the sequels make less and less money each go-around, which is probably why they worked out a sharing deal with Marvel.  Columbia isn't going to fully give up the rights, and Marvel would be fools to give away the rights to their current and very-popular Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen characters, which the **** fans would rather see.  I don't think audiences are particularly interested in any more Spider-Man flicks.

Since DC is owned fully by WB, Warner is making all those movies: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern Corps, etc.  This worked GREAT for them on TV because they had a pipeline going, but they don't seem to have that in movies like Marvel does.  They do seem to be building up momentum, finally, after the horrible Man Of Steel, Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad look... interesting.  But I can't imagine parents taking their kids to Suicide Squad, and Batman V Superman looks dark enough for some parents to say "I don't think so."  MCU movies are far more inclusive, which means more tickets sold.

Universal is the only company that doesn't do superheroes.  They're also the biggest earning movie studio, and have been for 15 years.  So they have NO need to get into the game.  But they still do big movies; Fast 7, Jurassic World, etc.

But a huge thing is that movies have to be events now, they need to be big and important enough to get people out of the house and into the cinema.  They don't even have to be big, they have to be an event.  Dramas, original stories, and so on don't feel important, so that's left to TV, who are happy to pick up the slack.  Anything new or interesting in terms of movies will probably come from VOD services like Netflix or Amazon.

And it's worth pointing out that all these comics are OLD.  Old old old.  It's near impossible to conceive a genuinely new, interesting hero (there was almost a superhero arms race in the 60s, every superhero that could be was, only the strong survived and those are the ones we know today), and just as tough to launch one.  So as audience interest wanes, we could see the rights for Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four lapse back to MCU/Disney, then we'll have a two-sided thing and there will be more spacing between titles and things might die down a bit.  Maybe.

Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 07:16:20 am »
Personally I could care less for another Spider-Man flick. They've done enough with his standalone movies to hold me over for a long long time. As for the character himself, I wouldn't mind him appearing in Team flicks like The Avengers and Captain America (both of which have been announced). Putting Spidey alongside other heroes is going to revitalize the character and all but assure us that we never have to sit through another redundant Origin story.

As for Batman being "rebooted" so soon after Bale's version, it's not really a reboot. Batman V. Superman is using Frank Miller's The Dark Knight book in which we have Bruce Wayne who retired as Batman long ago and has been out of the Superhero game. So, with an "older" character, starting a 'New" Batman with  Ben Affleck makes sense and I welcome it.

The last thing I gotta address is how DC/Warner Brothers are doing things. They have taken a page from Marvel and cut out the long setup and just decided to get to their "Avengers" universe quicker with the Justice League which EVERYONE wants to see....including Mac.  ;D ;) I like this sped up process as I don't want to have to sit through 5 standalone flims and 5 years before we get to see what we all want to see. This is the one good thing DC/WB has done. What I don't like and what actually p*sses me off is that they are treating their TV series as the ugly stepchild (Arrow, The Flash and the forthcoming Legends of Tomorrow). This is insulting to fans of those shows. Hell, WB already cast a different actor in the role of Barry Allen, aka The Flash. Not cool. The actors that play The Flash and Arrow on TV should be allowed to play in the sandbox that is DCU.
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Mac

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 08:36:11 am »
Are they not making this TV shows because the fans want them, or the studio's doing this with a blind eye.

I've heard over time the big picture (as you guys describe) and how it's a progressive nature. I guess bottom line for me, I'm not nearly the film geek like some folks are. This far range plan just doesn't matter to me. I barely shrug as next years walking dead or the 106th sequel to Fast and Furious. Far reaching interlaced stories are not in my wheelhouse.
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Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2015, 10:43:02 pm »
So, how long do you think it will take before Marvel and DC finally give us what we all want: a Crossover. There will come a time when the Superhero genre starts to slide and it will be that slide that propels both companies to finally give in and start having the big name characters playing in the same sandbox for a huge payday. It definitely won't happen with the current crop of actors. But I say we get at least one movie within 15 years.
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Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 12:27:43 am »
Far too many things would have to align for something like that to happen.  Just getting Spider-Man in the MCU required a buttload of extra work, and that's ONE character.

MCU and DCCU combining?  WAY too many chefs in the kitchen, too many different people to appease, and since the profits would be split down the middle?  Too much work, not enough reward.  MUCH simpler movies that both parties WANT to get made don't get past this stage.  A friend of mine was on a TV show that was quite popular and got cancelled because the rightsholders started disagreeing on sh*t.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 12:29:37 am by Neumatic »

Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 02:47:07 pm »
Okay, reading this article about the MCU's lousy villains is making me realize that outside of some Batman villains, I don't really know any other DC villains either.  Chip's idea of a team-up is making me imagine Iron Man fighting the Joker, or Bane vs Captain America, or Two-Face vs Hulk, or Superman fighting Loki, or Batman Vs Ultron... those kinds of pairing seem interesting to me.

Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 04:21:21 pm »
Well, the reason why I brought it up is that Marvel and DC Heroes can only fight the same Villains over and over before it runs its course. Now you have to mix it up and crossover to make things more interesting for both the characters and of course the viewer. Yes, I understand the logistical nightmare of two companies merging for a payday, but I think it could actually happen if there is a chance for a guaranteed $1 Billion + cash windfall of a dying genre. Granted, this is 15 years into the future. It still has legs at the moment.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 07:09:38 am »
Alex Ross Sneaks Superman Into Marvel Comic Cover - IGN News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOHCuUBo8wg

This feels very appropriate for this thread.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 09:09:48 am »
RedLetterMedia did a great video about all these superhero movies, as well as maybe my favourite observation about geek culture: "it's cool to say you're a nerd, it's not cool to actually BE a nerd!"


Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 04:23:45 pm »
"It Was Chaos": The Behind-the-Scenes Story of What Went Wrong with 'Fantastic Four'

Fascinating read. I have been following the drubbing of FF since it's release and it's uniformly considered to be the absolute worst Comic Book movie ever. Worse than Batman and Robin as well as Catwoman. Now THAT's saying a lot!!! Give the link a read, it's good.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 05:55:50 pm »
It's nuts.

A HUGE red flag is that they made the movie "for the wrong reasons."  Has there ever been a Fantastic Four movie that was made because the studio wanted a good Fantastic Four movie?  No.  It's always been about protecting the rights.  It's why they're making a sequel!  Yes, Fant4stic is getting a sequel.  And I'm sure the actors are locked in for another one, though I'm sure NO ONE wants to go back and do another one.  Maybe the new creative side can find a way to salvage it.  Maybe not.

Collider talks about this, I watched this a few days ago, most telling bit at the five minute mark:


I will say that Fant4stic is one of the many recent cr*p films (alongside Pixels and Vacation) that I think will provide really interesting notes.



The stuff about Doug Liman, that dude is notorious for the way he makes movies, he just films until the money runs out, then raises more money, films more, etc, there are SEVERAL wrap parties on each of his films... plus he keeps recasting parts, adding stuff in and cutting stuff out.  I kept hearing that Fant4stic feels like it's missing a reel, and I had that EXACT reaction to Mr & Mrs Smith, because that movie just abruptly ends, plus there's all these set-ups that are just forgotten about.

Chiprocks1

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 12:00:24 pm »
Fantastic 4 Sequel Hasn't Been Scrapped - IGN News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLdcweWazE

Say what?! Even though I have yet to see this Reboot, I have been following the going-on's of what is a $100 million flop. So, the sequel still being a "go" is mind boggling. Even if they are still in the 'mulling it over" phase is head scratching.
Chip's Rockin' Art
Michael Scott To Meredith: "You've slept with so many men, your starting to look like one. BOOM! Roasted! Go here.

Neumatic

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 12:17:09 pm »
Fox has no choice, they gotta keep making these movies.

I wrote a blog post about all these problems and "solutions" when Fan4stic came out, when everyone was trying to write their own Fantastic Four movies.  Maybe worth a look, if you like.   just don't have the energy or time to write out the bullet points yet again.

Mac

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Re: Super Hero Movies - a rant
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 01:31:02 pm »
Nice read... even I understood your thinking.

At the beginning you say Fox doesn't care about FF. It seems that thinking alone will always cripple that product, regardless of all the other suggested ways to make it a success. If a studio, company, person, etc... does not care about a franchise, product, person, etc... then it will never be more than that. You've got to have interest, passion, love for your product, otherwise no matter how much money you throw at it or try to keep it alive, the audience will be quick and decisive, as they have, on success or failure.
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